Talk: Quadrapod

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Main page changes

Hi there, sorry for the intrusion on the main page, but we had complaints that it was too long and forcing people to scroll. I reorganized it to make it shorter. — Game widow ^(talk) 18:01, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

No worries, wiki's are community affairs and I don't ever browse on mobile so I'd have been ignorant of the problem indefinitely. Can you let me know where you got that feedback though. I do like to keep up on the communities suggestions and complaints where possible. Based on the mobile view though it seems like scrolling may still be an issue. Quadrapod (talk) 13:43, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

The feedback was from my boss, Ben Robinson — Game widow ^(talk) 14:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Image size

I just want to make sure of something.. so all items have two sizes: 34x34 which are commonly used in tables and 80x80 which is just in case you need a larger image? At first I thought they were duplicates so I placed delete templates, but if that's not the case I'll undo my changes. Kyreeva (talk) 21:25, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

There is no need to have 2 different resolutions (sizes), just keep the larger images. You can always specify a smaller size, but "upscaling" never looks good — Game widow ^(talk) 21:44, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

The larger images were a part of an old template Template:Quality Sprite. They generally just have a large amount of white-space surrounding them because it was from a time when the sprites had to be manually isolated from images of the game. 80x80px is the spacing between the two dark pixels in the corners of the inventory pane in game and so was convenient for sprite extraction. The template is outdated now. It was only useful in tables because it made use of a div element, it was difficult to maintain because it made use of specific parts of MediaWiki:Hydradark.css, and the method of extracting sprites was far more manual. Basically they are a holdover from before I really knew what I was doing or had access to the games sprite sheets but also while I was one of very few editors because the game was in alpha. Despite being largeer as Game widow mentions they are not a drop in replacement for the current sprites because of the amount of whitespace surrounding each image and their general lower quality. Most if not all of them can be deleted safely. As for scaling I've taken some measures to mitigate that.

All the images on the wiki are pixel art so:

    image-rendering:-moz-crisp-edges;
    image-rendering:-o-crisp-edges;
    image-rendering:-webkit-optimize-contrast;
    -ms-interpolation-mode:nearest-neighbor;
    image-rendering:crisp-edges;
    image-rendering:pixelated;

was added to MediaWiki:Hydradark.css to improve image scaling by forcing the browser to use image interpolation methods which better display pixel art. While scaling down is usually much better than scaling up when considering the majority of images, with pixel art scaling down with any method tends to leave them blurry/choppy while scaling up with nearest neighbor interpolation actually keeps them looking crisp. Sites dedicated to pixel art store it at native resolution whenever possible for that reason, it's better so long as you use lossless compression methods and it has the side benefit of making pages load more responsively because of smaller image file sizes. I've been making pixel art in my spare time for about a decade now so it's a problem I'm fairly familiar with. Quadrapod (talk) 03:46, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Time Template

Another thing, we need an image and template for time. The time for item crafting like it takes 02:30 for Iron ingot. Kyreeva (talk) 22:07, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm having trouble finding a good fit for this in the game files. I threw this together though from the hourglass sprite for fertilizers. I'll think about it a bit more though and do a little more digging when I have the opportunity. Quadrapod (talk) 04:25, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Shepard -> Shepherd

"Shepard" is written "Shepherd" ingame.

The Shepard page has been moved to match the new title with a redirect left behind on each to avoid breaking other pages. Several other pages have had their references updated as well. Quadrapod (talk) 09:29, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Buffs

I suppose a Buff series of pages should be created? I saw that buffs can come from food, but I didn't expect for there to be something like being tired. File:Tired_buff.png Kyreeva (talk) 10:22, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Buffs and debuffs are in the game files referred to as auras. That terminology isn't used in the game itself though to my knowledge and would likely be confusing. I think a page dedicated to them would definitely be worth while. I'm not sure which ones are or aren't in the game though. Here are each of the associated images.

Quadrapod (talk) 10:49, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

I finished the Effects page but now I wonder about food buffs. They both go under "Buffs" so there should be a page that directs you to effects and food buffs. I'm just thinking we should just have a Character page because there are even perks as well.

Kyreeva (talk) 13:20, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Tech Tree

One idea I have for the tech tree is to just have an infograph. Alianin was developing something to try and make it work, but I'm not sure if it'll be suitable. People would want to see it in its branching form, and there's just so much that I don't think it can fit on one page.

Kyreeva (talk) 13:26, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Seems reasonable. The information is difficult to present nicely. Quadrapod (talk) 12:37, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

happiness template

Would it be possible to edit the happiness template in a way that when {,{happiness|10}} (without the comma) is written in source code, it displays the happiness icon and the number after it. Similar to money template. I can't figure out how that works... Db31 (talk) 22:11, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

The same should be added for the techpoints as well.

Kyreeva (talk) 04:35, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Both Template:Happiness and Template:Techpoint have been updated with the requested feature as well happiness has been established as a link to a currently nonexistant reputation page. See the associated doc pages for details on the templates use.

1

1

Quadrapod (talk) 05:03, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Page: The Village

Can the pages Village and The Village be combined into one? I would suggest keeping the name of the page "The Village" since it is written that way ingame.

Note that I used [,[Village|The Village]] (without the comma) on numerous pages.

Db31 (talk) 22:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

The Village Has been deleted and the content has been migrated to there from Village. Village remains established as a redirect to The Village. Quadrapod (talk) 04:13, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Infobox Images

I wanted to get started on getting actual game images of the blueprints. Referring to the anvil infobox image, do you do anything special to the image other than crop it? Dealing with images is not my specialty. I was thinking of just getting screenshots of the object and just uploading it until someone can photo edit it. Kyreeva (talk) 04:23, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

that's fine, just try and keep the aspect ratio close to 1:1, though you don't have to be exact. Images that are widely outside of square will just look strange and distorted. The default size for infobox images is 240x240px so images will usually look their best at around those resolutions since they won't be scaled up or down much. It's not an exacting science though. Increase yard space for example is outside of that but works better to show the increased working area in the workyard. So long as the infobox images aren't wildly out of proportion or so large or small as to be meaningless it shouldn't be an issue.

This is one of those things that it would be really easy to obsess about and go really over the top with but generally I think having any content there is better than the current system. If you absolutely wanted to do this perfectly I could send you the mf sprites and you could patch together all of the different images into the final workstation, then animate them against a transparent background... Maybe one day that might be worth while but for now with so much content needing to be made and cleaned up still it doesn't seem worth it. Here is just a demo of what would be involved in that if you were considering it.

The results are good but I don't think it's necessary right now. Quadrapod (talk) 07:14, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Item: Golden injection, A mug of mead

Page: Golden injection The item Golden injection is called Gold injection in-game. Can we change this, too? I wanted to do it myself, but failed when trying to upload the images of golden injection with a different name (i'm new to wikis). I already copied the contents from the page Golden injection to Gold injection.

Also: I don't know how to get those crispy sprites for items that are not listed yet, e.g. A mug of mead. I could get the 80x80px pic myself, but don't know about that smaller res. Pewpew (talk)

Higher quality sprites need to be extracted from the game files directly. It's not a simple process unfortunately. Linking to an image you don't have or uploading an image of any quality as you've done is good though as it lets people know where to fill in content and creates a placeholder for people to build around. I've moved the page Golden injection to Gold injection. Instead of copying a pages content in the upper right there is an option under "more" to move a page for future reference. Thank you for taking the time to point out those issues, let me know if you see any similar instances of misnaming on the wiki. A lot of names have changed between the alpha and release builds. Quadrapod (talk) 16:29, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Fertilizers

Just before editing the page about fertilizers I conducted my own little test, with all types of fertilizer. And I found at least one other player who did the same - https://steamcommunity.com/app/599140/discussions/0/1694923613867029579/ . And that clearly shows that boost only affect speed, while quality one affects both quantity and quality. So, I respectfully disagree on that part of the Farming article

Alright good to know, I'll update the page accordingly. My information is likely a little dated since I haven't had an opportunity to actually play through the full release of the game yet. The orginal article was written based off a similar user test posted to the Graveyard Keeper discord. I'm uncertain if that information is out of date for the release build of the game or was never accurate but rest it will be changed to reflect this more recent user testing moving forward. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Quadrapod (talk) 22:21, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Item Infobox Field

I'm currently in a place in the game where it's difficult getting blue techpoints, just making glass all day. I was thinking another field should be added to the item infobox for when you create an item and out comes a certain amount of techpoints. I looked at the steam updates and it said that they fixed the glass blue techpoint abuse, so this is more important than ever. There will maybe be more changes like this, affecting how people farm their techpoints. I just don't know what to call the field. Creation? Techpoints? Kyreeva (talk) 06:13, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Another possible field is for the NPC that you can sell an item to. Starting out, getting money is hard and people might want to know if selling any of their stuff is worth it to get that extra cash. I know, there are quite a bit of infobox fields, but this is something that needs to be added somewhere. Kyreeva (talk) 06:42, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

All of the information is important, but doesn't necessarily translate well to an infobox. Similarly to how information about the items needed to craft something doesn't translate well to an infobox. Likewise the techpoints received by making an item can actually vary from workstation to workstation. I think the information is best put into a field beside the crafting recipe. Rather than confined to an infobox. If you wanted to make a page specifically dedicated for farming techpoints that could be a good page for Guides & Tutorials though. Quadrapod (talk) 06:55, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Health and Energy Visibility

As I was adding the health and energy templates for items being consumed, I noticed that for items that decrease your health -1 +2 (this is for edible mushroom), the minus sign could easily be dismissed and the plus sign makes it look like an equation.
I considered doing -1 +2 but it also doesn't look quite right. In-game both the icon and values are color coded for visibility, so I was wondering if the health and energy template could changed to add the quantity as well as color code it. Sorry about the many template requests, I don't know how to do templates. I've learned by copy and pasting stuff.

Templates can be intimidating but really when you invoke a template it just means the content on the template page will be copied to the page in that place. This is normally called transclusion. That is all that templates do in simplest terms. I can look into it though. I think generally speaking I'd like to add a new pixelated font to the wiki for the purposes of displaying all of those fields from the game. To make it more apparent what's being displayed is a related value. Quadrapod (talk) 07:40, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

How about using a similar style as in-game? I tried something on the german wiki: https://graveyardkeeper-de.gamepedia.com/Vorlage:Gesundheit. I added an optional sign to indicate whether life is being removed or added and amount. The text is bold and colored red. Pewpew (talk) 11:13, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I actually nearly committed edits to that effect but decided to try and find a better font for it first and never ended up committing them. I've enabled '04b_03__-webfont' in Hydradark.css, it's not a perfect fit but I think it works for the application. The tff was already on the wiki so it just needed to be added to the style rule. If you've got an option you'd prefer let me know but be aware that fonts can be tangled up in a lot of intellectual property.

The Quick
Brown Fox
Jumps Over The
Lazy Dog

Quadrapod (talk) 12:35, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Template:Energy and Template:Health have had their functionality expanded. +20, -20 Quadrapod (talk) 13:01, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I actually like what the german wiki template. The pixelated font next to the normal text is very disconcerting. Looking at something that's clear then looking at something that not clear and vice versa causes eye strain. One person reported that it actually hurts for them to look at the font on Talk:Graveyard_Keeper_Wiki. Kyreeva (talk) 00:00, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

I've reverted the changes, thank you for the feedback. I'm really not the best judge for eyestrain and the problem never occurred to me. Quadrapod (talk) 00:30, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Headers on Mobile

I was looking at the graveyard keeper wiki on mobile just to see what it looks like on the phone, and I noticed something weird with the tables. It seems like every page with sections have at least one section that is automatically expanded like White flower. There are even some pages that have multiple sections that are expanded like Blueprints. The effect is devastating on such pages like Alchemy or Locations where there is a lot of content. Kyreeva (talk) 01:08, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Mobile users of the site use the Minerva skin. mw-collapsible does not function with Minerva. Here is the tracker for that particular issue. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T111565 I've been aware of the problem and I thus far haven't seen a solution I felt would work well with the wiki. The only option we really have at the moment which I'm aware of is to limit the use of mw-collapsible and to design with mobile users of the site in mind. For alchemy in particular I think some use of the class nomobile and mobileonly to hide certain superfluous content or offer up links to mobile specific pages might be beneficial.

Demonstration of mobile specific fields: This text is desktop only. This text is mobile only. Quadrapod (talk) 01:49, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Mobileonly

I tested the mobile only format on Edible mushroom. I opted for no images and limited it to 2-3 columns so that you don't have to scroll to the right. Suggestions? I would want some disclaimer that says that what the person is seeing is mobile only and that if they want full details that they switch to desktop view. I would also the headers to be colored in rather than everything having a black background. Problems? On desktop view, the headers for the mobileonly sections show in the table of contents.

I'd really like for there to be images of the items, but I also don't really want the table to scroll to the right. Vertical space could be utilized to fit in images without making the table scroll to the right. For example, have the image on the top and text on the bottom. Using the item template, the text can go over to the next cell. Kyreeva (talk) 03:51, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

You shouldn't need to tell people that something is mobile only. All the information that's available to desktop users needs to be just as available to mobile users and if information is hidden it needs to be style based and nothing more. Likewise things like this would be better done in MediaWiki:Mobile.css and Template:Item by creating a new rule which could be applied to tables to selectively hide sub images within a table belonging to a specific class which would be invoked by Template:Item. This is similar to how infoboxes work. They label the div elements with a class which Hydradark.css and Mobile.css describe the styling of. Done that way all pages could be dynamically updated just by adding a class to the table. Otherwise all the information has to be entered twice on every page and users trying to edit are likely to make changes to the wrong field or only update one version of information and not the other. That should be avoided at all costs.

I don't think this is a good use of mobileonly in general. The area where I could see mobileonly being most useful at the moment is to replace very wide tables, and tables which don't display well on smart phones like the elements table in Alchemy, with a more mobile friendly version. To make it clear which version of the page is being edited the current table should be pushed to a template as should the mobile version of the table with edit links established similar to how navboxes work. Navboxes are tables which are inserted into the page but the edit link makes them pretty straight forward for a user to know how to edit them. As well sections can be collapsed in the mobile skin so even a very long page, like Items which in mobile view narrows to a single column list, can be navigated fairly smoothly just by collapsing headers. This is part of why allowing duplicate entries on the items page in particular is important. Because if mobile users can't find what they need by category they have to scroll the whole list searching. Quadrapod (talk) 04:51, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Translation to Brazilian Portuguese

Hi, I would like to start contributing with the translation of the pages into Brazilian Portuguese. Thank you. Walyssonpaiva (talk) 19:26, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

The Gamepedia translation guidelines are a good place to start. https://help.gamepedia.com/Translation_guidelines Quadrapod (talk) 20:42, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Image Size Ctd

So, after reading the above, I nearly hurt my fragile little mind. Relatively familiar with paint.net - not so much photoshop - and relatively good at cutting out an image, but was a bit shocked when the standard for item images (both for the template at infoboxes) seems to be 34x34. Tried downscaling, with an obvious blurred result, that doesn't look all that bad ...at least until they're side by side your sparkly pixels. Please help? - don't mind the work, just need some guidance and/or suggestions. Dsurian (talk) 01:12, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Pixel art can be a little tricky to keep crisp, though really having any content is better than having none at all so thank-you for uploading and drawing my attention to the missing assets and what they look like. I've uploaded some replacement files for berry juice and apple juice from the games sprite sheets in base resolution and with transparency intact. Quadrapod (talk) 02:14, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Image Request #1

So, as you have magical access to a realm I can only dream of, I've compiled a short list of image requests for you to investigate in your leisure, if you don't mind... 1) You dumped a whole bunch of effect images recently, about half of which don't seem to be implemented yet, though it would seem we've missed at least one. I've recently uploaded a shoddy variant, but was hoping you could replace it with something more pristine and uniform - see Effects>Speed potion. 2) I'm relatively sure that the image for the Paper with calculations is wrong ...though I'm also not sure what to replace it with - should be quite similar to the appearance of Instructions for key. 3) The image for Infusion - seems to be the baseline pixel model, where Booze has the 'XXX' picture attached to the front, and Infusion should have a picture of the red mushroom attached to the front ...but pointedly doesn't. 4) Dough; when searching multimedia, there are three 80px (Dough_, Dough_1, Dough_2) and two 34px (Dough_'s "Dough", and Dough_1's "Pastry dough"). The thing is, Dough_ doesn't appear to have been implemented yet, where-as Dough_1 (currently 'Pastry dough') should actually be 'Dough', and Dough_2 should be 'Pastry dough', yet doesn't currently have a 34px.
And that's it for now - hope you approve of all the editing I've been doing recently. Hope to finish my vision for Fishing within the next week, after which I'm hoping you'd graciously critic it. Cheers! Dsurian (talk) 20:58, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Quality Fertilizer

Comments section wasn't working out, so I guess I'm going to have to post here.

Quality Fertilizer scales; (Nothing / Peat / Q Silver / Q Gold)
Basic Crop Produce - 7 avg / +2 / +4 / +6
Basic Crop Seeds - 3 avg / +1? / +2 / +3
Complex Crop Produce - 4 avg / +1 / +2* / +4**
Complex Crop Seeds - 3 avg / +1 / +2* / +4**

? - I'm not sure what's happening here; going from 2-4 to 3-4, so removes the chance for 2 seeds?
* - this includes 1 upgrade, silver from a copper yield / gold from a silver yield.
** - this includes 2 upgrade, silver from a copper yield / gold from a silver yield.

Lastly, the 'upgrade' function of Silver Quality fertilizer is not limited to silver-quality seeds and produce ...it simply determines the number of upgrades, while Peat pointedly has 0, and Gold has 2; another significant point that I tried to make clear with those tables on Farming. Hope all this might help ...? I'd share my collection of spreadsheets if this wasn't public, and saved. Dsurian (talk) 06:04, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

So I spent a few hours decompiling the game and going through it to figure this out. I'm not sure how savy you are with this kind of thing, but it seems like in essence each item of each quality has its own table of probabilities in quality_probabilities. When it is time to drop an item the game calls this method with a list of items to be dropped from the crafter which is itself based on several pre established factors. From there it goes through quality_probabilities element by element starting at the end, each time comparing the probability in that table index to a random number between 0 and 1. If the random number is less than than the probability in the table it stores the value of the index it stopped at in index1 and exits the loop. So if the array was {0, 0.5, 0.25} index1 would have a 25% chance of stopping a 2. A 37.5% chance of stopping at 1 and a 37.5% chance of stopping at 0.

If the item has multiple qualities, it looks up the quality information for that item from a separate table which was meant to be populated differently depending on the game's difficulty setting by the looks of things. Then it subtracts 1 and subtracts index1. If that is less than 0.00999999977648258, then it sets flag to true. The state of this flag determines what quality and item from some additional pre populated multiquality_items will drop.. There's really not a nice way of presenting the underlying system. It seems most of these tables are mostly just populated with single items, or 0's and 1's alone. It's still just not easy to convey. I really don't understand why the system was made this way. Maybe it's just late and will make sense tomorrow. Quadrapod (talk) 08:37, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Not super-duper competent when it comes to what you're describing, probably mostly because I can't see it for myself, but the game using an array to populate the yield of crops makes perfect sense. When I've mentioned an 'average', I'm just talking about a potential range of numerals ...so, for example, the equation for the yield of a Basic Crop's Produce is something like 6+(0to2)+x ...there's a constant baseline6, while the range introduces a seemingly random variance, while the variable x is dependent on the quality increment (0/2/4/6) totaling a gross yield. Meanwhile, a Complex Crop's Produce is a bit different; 3+(0to2)+x+y ...there's still a constant 3 with a 'random' range, and a quality variable x adding to the gross yield (0/1/1/2) just as before, but with an additional quality variable y specifically for the secondary upgraded yield (0/0/1/2) - and, if we're talking about a crop that's already gold quality, then the two variables combine into (0/1/2/4), which is pointedly how I got the "Crop Yield: +1/+2/+4 overall". The Complex Crop's Seeds are practically identical, only changing the constant to a 2. The Basic Crop's Seeds stand out, possibly involving a shortened range of 0-1.

Either/or, we're essentially back where we started, in that there's isn't a *perfect* way to present this data simply, to which I gotta ask - do you still think my fertilizer tables on Farming weren't "good enough"? Dsurian (talk) 02:39, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Translation for Brazilian Portuguese

I would like to translate the entire wiki into Brazilian Portuguese, since there is nothing translate peatically. User:DrackorLiannon

That's great. To get started with that read the gamepedia translation guidelines. Encredechine is the webmaster for this wiki so you'll need to contact them to have the language added. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Quadrapod (talk) 17:50, 6 July 2019 (UTC)